The Badge of Honor That's Killing Your Business with Deric Keller

One of these days I'll tell you about a cool collaboration that I did with a big company and they introduced me to Derek Keller.

Derek is a business coach and we're chatting today about some business strategies that can make your business more profitable, more sellable, and quite frankly, maybe even just increase the mental well being of the business owner.

So I hope that you enjoy this episode.

Welcome to the weekly wealth podcast.

I am certified financial planner David Chudick.

I spend most of my days talking with business owners, the mass affluent and the high net worth about their money.

We talk about their financial dreams, we talk about their financial worries, and we talk about the decisions that they know they need to make.

That is what this show is about.

Today we have Derek Keller.

He's a certified business coach with Exit Momentum and a former $10 million business owner.

He helps entrepreneurs install systems, leadership, rhythm and strategy needed to grow profitably and prepare for long term exit or freedom.

Hey Derek, how are you?

Good, good.

How you doing?

I'm doing well.

I love talking exit planning, I love talking about business strategies and as a financial advisor, I think that our businesses are literally the greatest wealth building tool that we'll ever see.

Better than buying XYZ stock or anything like that.

And yes, you are going to give me free business coaching and yes, I'm going to be taking notes and hopefully implementing some things.

How'd you get into the business coaching business and you're not one of them coaches that are a coach because you're not able to do what you coach people?

No, actually we, we actually require our coaches to have been a business owner, a successful business owner, and have scaled and grown and sold businesses.

So that's one of our requirements as being a coach with eggs and women.

It's a little bit different.

But I guess to your question, tell you a little bit about me is I grew up Rock Springs, Wyoming, small town, didn't really think that I'd amount to much.

My teachers were the ones that always said that they were surprised with the things that I've done, which I'm sure some of you out there can relate to that.

I left Rock Springs, Wyoming and ended up in the Marine Corps of all things.

And there I learned a lot about leadership and how to really guide people in there.

I don't know that I learned the best ways to guide people, but it taught me a lot of different dynamics in running and growing people.

Is leadership something that like you're either you have or you don't?

Because I think sometimes we think, hey, Derek's A good leader or Derek's a bad leader.

And if Derek is a good leader, he's always been a good leader.

Or if Derek is a bad leader, like, he never can become a good leader.

Yeah, I don't.

I think it's a skill that's developed.

That's the way that I think of it.

And there's some p. There's some charismatic leaders that go out there, and they always seem to say the right thing.

But for the most part, then people have a ton of reps and a ton of practice.

That's definitely one thing I learned in the Marine Corps for sure, is reps.

So you get caught up in the.

In the mundane.

I remember sitting in the squad bay dry firing a rifle into the wall for two weeks before we were able.

Ever able to hit the rifle range.

So it.

We definitely do reps. We call it muscle memory, but all about the rims.

You got to get the easy things right almost 100% of the time, don't you?

All right, so business owner founders.

These are interesting people.

These are people that maybe had an idea, they had a dream, maybe they had a skill.

Maybe like a guy that likes building houses, starting a house building business because he's.

He likes construction and carpentry.

These people, like, what is the first hire that they normally get wrong?

Where do they mess up?

They hire to fill a seat.

They hire to just have a warm body.

Most of the time when we're hiring, we just hire to fill a hole.

And in reality, we should be designing the position or the role that we need to hire before we ever make the hire.

That keeps us from having these Frankenstein type roles and having these people who just were bolting different parts onto, and then they become either very hard to replace or very unproductive.

And we can't seem to measure how they're doing or what they're doing.

So what's a good hiring process?

Again, maybe you're in the beginning of building a business, and again, you're a house builder, two by fours, you know, doorknobs, walls.

And you might know that maybe you like me, we're friends.

But how would you know if I'm the guy that can fill that role?

Right.

If I have the right soft skills, the right hard skills.

Because that, I think is a hard question for almost everybody is like, how the heck do you know who to h. So talk to us about your process or some thought processes around that question.

Yeah, so there's a couple of different processes that I have, and it really goes depending on how big you are and how much you really need to get into the recruiting.

But let's just start at the basics.

And the very basics are the elevate and delegate model.

If you write down everything that you do during the day, and then you take it and you categorize it out into, hey, these are the things that I love to do and I'm really good at.

These are the things that I like to do and I'm good at.

These are things I hate to do and I'm good at, and these are the things that I hate and I suck at.

So I usually try to categorize things out, and then I'll take.

And I'll.

If I'm just gonna delegate some things off.

And especially at this small business type position where you're just kind of everybody's scrambling and doing a lot of things.

I try to get that bottom row off of my plate as quick as possible so that I can get up and do the things that I love and, like, do so that I'm.

But how does an owner or a leader get past?

Because I think there's a weird badge of honor that I'm so miserable, I do crap that I hate all day, and I worked 130 hours a week.

And I think a lot of business owners just want to be known as, like, the guy that grinds.

And obviously grinding, you got to grind, but you also have to bring in revenue and do.

And if you're dreading working all day, that's not good either.

So mentally, how does that owner get out of that?

Like, think it's okay to get stuff off their plate?

Yeah.

I mean, by figuring out that you're.

You're not productive in these things.

I've got a business owner, for instance, that we were sitting down in a meeting, and we started talking about him doing parts, running and running all over the place throughout the day, and answering all these phone calls.

And the things that were stacking up on his desk were bids.

And he closes at a 70 to 80% closing ratio when he gets a bid out.

So what we found by stacking up all the bids that he had on his desk is he was costing himself $60,000 a day by not getting bids.

So you have to make it hurt.

Right.

It's not saying that you can't hustle, you can't grind, and you can't put your nose to the grindstone.

It's the fact that are you doing it in the right places?

Are you doing it with the right things?

And oftentimes we're not.

We're getting caught up in busy work and firefighting throughout the day rather than doing the things that actually create the revenue and produce for us and ultimately charge us up and get us going into the next level.

I feel you.

I've been there for years.

There were years that I did all.

Did everything.

And I think sometimes it's hard to say that's not my job.

But I think.

I also think you need to get to a point where, no, that's not my job.

I'll jump in if I have to.

But this may be.

So, as an example, bookkeeping.

I finally, years ago, I gave in and I hired a bookkeeper because there's no reason in the world for any book business owner do their own books.

And my bookkeeper said, I love balancing books.

And I was like, are you crazy?

Like, you enjoy this?

What kind of a.

But she does.

And she probably would hate making sales calls because it's a different skill.

So I think there are always people who enjoy or love doing what you hate doing, and.

Yeah, and on top of that, they're going to do it a whole lot better than you do.

There's always that crazy dynamic of trying to let things go and get things off your plate.

And I think that the hardest thing to do is, like, you said that badge of honor that you wear, that, hey, you know what?

I'm hustling, I'm grinding, I'm doing my thing, and just realizing that every minute that you spend there, you're costing yourself.

And I don't know, like, I think we all know this, but I think sometimes paying you or someone like you to tell us this and make us change, I think is what's important.

Because in a lot of ways, if you wanted to get in better shape and lose weight, like, you know how to do it, the basics, but you're still gonna do better at it.

If you're paying a personal trainer, whether or not you show up, you're gonna show up, and you're gonna get that extra rep.

Whereas if you know you're supposed to do some bicep curls, you might do a few.

Are you gonna do as many as you need to?

Yeah.

The best in the world, best professionals in the world all have coaches.

So who do you want to be?

Do you want to be the best in your game, or do you want to be just average?

And that's really where what it comes down to is how do you want to.

How do you want to position yourself, and how do you want to operate do you want somebody that's going to be there to call you out?

True.

A players want somebody to call them out and push them.

And the people who just want to ride the status quo, they're going to, they're going to ride the middle and they're just not going to push themselves outside of their comfort zone.

You know, it's really interesting as a financial advisor, I am a coach, I know the financial rules and everything, but ultimately I'm here to help clients have the behaviors that will bring them towards their goals.

And, and my successful clients, to a large part, most of them say, yeah, you just tell me what to do and I'll do it.

That's why I'm paying you.

Plus, I'm running a business and I can't spend time researching the IRA rules.

You need to know that.

And in a lot of the other clients, maybe some of the less successful ones, they're gonna debate, maybe I could get an extra half point if I invest here or invest there and almost argue with the coach.

And I think arguing with the coach may not bring the best results.

We're not always exactly right, but we, I think we can point people in the right direct much more often than not.

So yeah, it's really that the eyes outside of the room, right, the expert that can point you in the right direction.

Ultimately it's your decision to, to make whatever decision you want to do.

But we're that third party that you can lean into, that you can ask questions to, that can be the expert for you, that can bring other tools from other places that can see things from, in other industries that maybe might make sense in your industry for you guys as financial advisors, seeing, seeing all these different, different investments and different opportunities and different banking that there's.

One of my, my, my financial investor called me up and told me about some savings account that was given 9% back and it was like, oh, okay, that's one way to do it.

Just set it over there.

There's, you guys know the ins and outs and what's performing and what's not performing.

And there's so many, so many different dynamics to it that you really have to be a professional in that industry to, to be able to see the things that other people don't see.

So let's talk about founders and we're talking about, we're not talking Elon Musk here who's built a trillion dollar business.

We're talking about 1, 10, 15, 20 people employee companies.

What's a metric?

And I know that we all should be looking at our numbers and we should know where revenue's coming from, where our expenses go and all that.

But what's a metric that most founders are tracking incorrectly?

Man, one of the, one of the biggest metrics that founders definitely track incorrectly is profit.

They're constantly trying to put different things and hide different things and then ultimately messing with the valuation of their company.

They're oftentimes trying to put so many things inside of the business because they're trying to avoid paying taxes or whatever they're trying to do.

Ultimately, they end up hurting themselves when it comes time to get that line of credit, to be able to get the house or do the do that extra piece of equipment or do the things that they ultimately want to do because they're shifting and hiding money outside of whatever they're doing.

But they end up messing with their profitability, which ultimately not only hurts the business as far as being able to make financial decisions, it hurts the business as far as the valuation of the company.

Let's step away from the podcast for just a moment.

One of the services that I offer to my clients is help planning to exit their business.

So as business owners, you're familiar with the challenges and complexities that come with steering your company day to day.

But have you considered the transformative power of picturing your end game?

So imagine having a destination so clear in your mind that every decision you make naturally aligns with it.

To download our free ebook called the End Game, go to my website, www.web weeklywealthpodcast.com endgame.

That's www.weeklywealthpodcast.com endgame.

And okay, now let's get back to the podcast.

One of the important things to remember is your business is actually your biggest asset after a point, right?

Yes.

I'm sure you own some outside investments.

Maybe you own some Microsoft stock.

Microsoft stock is probably going to go up.

It may go down at points, but nobody from Microsoft is calling you say, hey, Derek, what do you think we should do about XYZ issue?

Now, with your business as the owner and the founder, you have a lot of control over the value of your business.

So you can absolutely have help to help to make the make the value of the business grow.

What are some things that lower the value of a business?

And what are some things, simple things that might.

Might raise the value of a business?

Yeah, so it's funny that you bring this up because I was sitting in one of my meetings yesterday and this is exactly what we were talking about.

We were Talking about the customer diversification.

Oftentimes customer businesses get tied up with this one customer and think, oh, this is so great because they're, I can go get all my money from one source and I don't have to run all around.

That kills valuation, that kills the value of your business.

Human capital is a big one that people inside of your business and how they operate, how long they've been there, how knowledgeable they are.

Intellectual property, what kind of intellectual property, what kind of systems, processes, things do you have in place that are going to carry on and carry that business forward?

Financial strategy, the ability to predict and look at the what the business is going to be able to do and that's going to help valuation.

Of course, any kind of software or things like that are going to drive business valuation as well.

But the main things that people can control are right there in front of you.

It's the intangibles that human capital, the structural capital, the customer capital.

Making sure that we have things really lined out and ensure that we have that diversification across the board.

It also falls into vendors, right?

Making sure that you have vendor diversification.

A lot of times business owners think, oh, I've got this great deal over here and I'm just going to solely buy from these people.

We need to create some different abilities for you to pull in this inventory.

If things happen like they did this year with tariffs and things like that, where people got stuck in a big bind.

I had one client that ended up with a $300,000 shipment that was supposed to cost him 300,000, ended up costing him 900,000 by the time he got through all the tariffs.

Different things that got put on.

What about recurring revenue?

I've always heard that's something that helps to drive up the value of a company.

So let's say I own a company that brings in a million dollars of revenue, but it's reoccurring.

So maybe I'm a restaurant and maybe I'm Chick fil a and you might come to eat lunch with me once a week, but you also might miss four weeks.

And then maybe there's another company, maybe it's a car wash and it's one of them.

You put your credit card in and it just charges you 30 bucks a month or whatever it is.

I would rather own that car wash where I know how much money is coming in per month.

Do you think that recurring revenue is a major factor within business valuation?

Yeah, recurring revenue.

And that's the thing is a lot of people don't Even know the difference between reoccurring and recurring.

Right.

So like you said, you basically explained it perfectly that reoccurring is the people that just are loyal to your business and are going to continue to come back like the Target versus Walmart shoppers.

And then the recurring revenue is that monthly membership of something.

Right.

Fitness.

Right.

They're not in the gym business, they're in the reoccurring that probably 3% of their people come to work out every month.

But it's so cheap that people just never cancel.

Yeah, that's huge.

Right?

That, that, that monthly fee, they're counting on breakage, they're counting on people not showing up.

Right.

And then continuing to connect or collect that revenue.

And yeah, that monthly revenue that drives valuation huge.

Sometimes anywh 3 to 6 points.

As far as your multiple having that recurring revenue is huge.

All right, then you just said three to six points with regard to the multiple.

Anybody who's never sold a business or what is a multiple and what does that mean?

And what are you multiplying by what just 30,000 foot level stuff here?

Yeah, so I mean there's different depending on the business.

Typically, you know, like your typical, let's just say H Vac or home services business, they're going to get a multiple based on ebitda, right.

Which is your earnings before taxes, amortization, that, that, all that.

Right.

The EBITDA number or net profit.

Right.

So if you look at your net profit and that'll usually give you a pretty good idea, take that and times that by a multiple.

So your multiple is figured based on the industry that you're in.

It's based on the human capital, the structural capital, all these intangible capitals and then that different recurring revenue, reoccurring revenue.

They look at all of your numbers, how your loyalty score goes and you can get all the way up in that 6, 10, 15 times multiples depending on how solid you are.

And then it also depends on, you know, who's buying you.

A lot of times people in your own industry will buy you and if they're buying you, typically they're buying you because something that you have that they don't, and if you have something that you have that, if you have something that they don't have, that's going to drive the multiple up.

But if you're getting from a firm or something like that, a lot of times that's going to, that's going to drive a different, they're looking at revenue and all these different things that, that really start to drive the revenue or drive the multiple.

When you're looking at a SaaS company, which is that software as a service, right.

Typically they're getting multiples off of revenue versus off of ebitda.

So that's a crazy thing, right?

A lot of people get caught up in going after these SaaS or building these SaaS companies and it's actually with AI right now, it's actually driving the multiples down.

So it's a game.

Everything is cyclical.

But tell me if I'm thinking this correctly.

So let's say you have Derek's business and let's the Ibita or I guess EBITDA can almost be thought of like profit.

Not exactly.

Let's just say it's $100,000 just making up a number.

But I've been looking at your business and I noticed we did some due diligence and your books are not very clean and maybe you've had a lot of turnover with your staff.

If I took over, I'm not really getting a seasoned team.

Similar companies in your industry have, I don't know, 50% of their revenue is recurring.

You don't have any.

And let's say a typical multiple in your business just making up a numbers four times.

I'm going to argue that, hey, I'll buy your business, but I'm not buying it at the typical.

The typical multiple because of this and this.

I'll give you two times.

And then maybe you might say, I'll take two and a half and maybe would.

But.

But if Derek would have been working with Derek's counterpart, the business coach, several years earlier, they would have gotten all of those things fixed and then the business would have sold for market value.

Am I looking at this right?

Am I oversimplifying it?

No.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

So in that scenario, it's definitely going to drive one to three times.

Right.

So you're only going to get one to three times.

But when you have all these things in place, you're not getting the average, you're getting above average.

So then it goes the other way as well.

So where the average might be 4 to 6, you might get 6 to 10.

Right.

If you have all the right things in place.

So there's a lot of different dynamics that go into this.

And on that point Dynamic in our 3D model, we go through what we call a 3D diagnostic with everybody before we ever bring them on.

And what that is, it's direction.

What's the direction of the company?

Right.

When you think of that's really like, where we're going, what goals do we have?

How clear are them goals?

What do we have to really support them goals?

And then we go into design.

What's the design of the company?

What's the structure, the systems, the processes?

What's that financial model?

Then we dive down into the dynamic which we call the human part of that, right?

So what's the human dynamic that we have going on inside of this business so that we can start to see, hey, maybe Joe, who's been with us since the beginning, and we feel like he should be a part of the leadership team because he's been with us since the beginning.

Maybe Joe's the one that's holding us back because he has this mindset of, hey, we're a $5 million company and we're just going to stay here.

And he hasn't really thought beyond the room or what it's going to take to get there.

So he might be very beat, the person who got us here, but isn't going to be the one who's going to get us to the next level.

So we have to be able to see that human dynamic and be able to make the adjustments accordingly.

Let's talk about another word.

And you see all these business coaches, they talk about hustle and grit or I'm not going to lie, I listen to David Goggins sometimes when I'm working out.

He may drop a few F bombs, but it gets me motivated with all the hard work stuff.

But at what point do I need to stop?

Does hard work become counterproductive as a leader?

Yeah, absolutely.

And the reason for that is it really causes a bottleneck, right?

It puts a cap on your business because when you're hustling, grinding, you only have so much capacity, right?

So you're going to run into that burnout, that bottleneck, that hero dependency, right, where everybody's coming to you for the answers and it really starts to sl down and almost cut off the faucet inside of your business.

So the, that, that hustle, although it seems it's like it's this badge of honor, it ultimately causes that decisions to.

To not be that decentralized.

Going back to the Goggins and the Jocko where, where you're talking about in the seals, everything's that decentralized command and that really goes all the way across the military.

When you're thinking of decentralized command, it's really give them the mission and they're going to figure out how to get it done.

So really keeping things from being just all on you, giving them nice feedback loops and getting them things off your plate is one of the biggest things that you could do inside of your business.

Because oftentimes the business owner is that thing that's holding back.

The business leadership comes with responsibilities and I think the responsibility is to have the right people doing the right tasks.

And also the responsibility is set a lot of times is to say, I, as a leader, I'm not the right person to be completing that task.

Not that I'm too good to do it.

Not that I'm not a hard worker.

Either I can generate more revenue elsewhere or I'm just really not good at that or I don't want to do crap that I that brings me down all day every day and go home drained.

Because I do think that ultimately we want to get to a point where we really enjoy and get uplifted from what we do.

Oh, absolutely.

And to your point, like when you're operating in that zone of genius, right, when you're operating in who, who you're naturally built to be, it does exactly that.

It charges you up and to there's that, that David Goggins where you're just hustling all the time and grinding, but.

And then there's the opposite version of that where there's the people that say, oh, you got to have that four hour work weekly.

Like yeah, but really if you want to build something beyond, you've got to have the hustle, you got to have the grind.

And you're never going to be able to give equal time to your family, to your spirituality, to your body, Right?

So what you have to do is make sure that you're very strategic inside of that and ensuring that you're giving equal intention and equal focus.

So when you do spend time with your family, you need to be able to set your phone down.

When you go to the gym, you need to have a plan.

You can't just walk in there and scope the gym out, right?

We've all walked into the gym without a plan at some point in time.

And you walk in and you're just like looking at everything going, oh, I don't really know where to go.

Where we go over here and you lift some things, then go over here and lift some things and.

And then you never really have a productive workout.

But when you go in with that clear plan, okay, here I'm supposed to go in, I'm doing back and buys today.

So I'm doing this exercise.

You go in and you spend 45 minutes to an hour and you knock out a killer workout, and you leave feeling refreshed and charged up.

Same with your family, right?

Oftentimes we give so much to business that we come home, and all that our family's getting is the leftovers.

Right?

And so we have to look at this from a different standpoint.

How can I charge myself up at business so I can come home, spend time with my family, and get charged up again to go back to business?

And then that, that.

That intentional spirituality, whether you believe in God or don't believe in God, we can all agree that there's some higher power out there.

So how are you operating, giving intention to your mind and giving it the rest that it needs?

Are you doing the daily prayer or the daily meditation or journaling?

Journaling is one of the biggest things that, that.

That you hear about from every successful entrepreneur, every successful coach, every.

Everybody out there who's finding big success is journaling every day, right?

So whether it's some model of just looking at your wins and losses for the day or doing a gratitude journal or running through one of the.

One of the tools that I use is the stack where it's this opportunity to really look at yourself in the mirror and call yourself out on things and then create action out of it.

Like, what are you doing to journal and get things up and out of yourself so that you're not that ticking time bomb that's ready to explode?

And I think also just knowing yourself, what are my tendencies, what pisses me off, what gets me excited, where do I write that down?

And then now it's a fact, right?

And then what are you doing to educate yourself inside of your business?

Right?

Are you educating yourself every day?

And what I like to do inside of this is I like to listen to a podcast, read a book, watch a YouTube video, and then I challenge myself with teaching it somebody.

Because if you learn to teach, you learn at a completely different level, right?

So it's going to put you on a different pendulum and put you out there to go do something different.

You and I, it sounds like we're on the same page on a lot of issues, and we could probably do four or five or 10 episodes or talk for several hours, which we obviously can't do because we got to get back to grinding or.

Or get back to delegating and leading our teams.

But I did want to ask you if we have a business owner or a leader and they're driving in their car and they're thinking, you Know what?

Derek's kind of described me like, I have some of the things going on that, that he's talking about it, and I would like, I have a business.

Maybe I don't want to sell it tomorrow, but eventually I might want to, or I just like his philosophy.

Tell us where they could find you and talk a little bit about how you work with business owners.

Do they need to be physically in your area?

Do you work virtually?

So typically what we do is we have you go to exitmomentum.com and you can select one of the coach and book a call directly with us to where we could do 3D diagnostic on your business.

Or you could go in and take our assessment.

There's an assessment on our website where you can assess yourself and then maybe that exposes some things that asks you some questions and open up, opens up some opportunities for you to think a little bit different.

And once you fill out that.

That assessment, then it'll ask you if you want to book a call with us and then we can review that assessment and run through a 3D diagnostic and then go through what we call a leadership lab.

Have with your leadership team that you currently have.

And all that is upfront, that none of that costs you anything.

So it's all free from the very beginning for us to give you insights and really give you some different tools to work with and start to work inside of your business on your own.

Ultimately, we're of course, that next level.

You step in with us, we come on site with you.

The way that works is we fly out to you anywhere in the nation.

We have coaches a little bit everywhere, and I personally am happy to go anywhere, but it's definitely.

It's definitely a whole lot more impactful when we're in the room rather than virtual.

So we don't like to do a lot of virtual.

We will put.

Put those.

Those addresses in the show notes.

And if listening to Coach Derek is getting you excited and if you feel like you like his philosophies, then definitely reach out.

All right, we're the weekly wealth podcast.

Here's the last question that I did not tell you I was going to ask you.

So I always put guests on the spot.

I'm a financial advisor and we talk about the mindsets, the tactics, and the strategies that can help you to build and maintain wealth.

Derek Killer, what is your definition of wealth?

For you, for your family and all the people in your life that you love and care about, what's your definition of wealth?

Oh, my definition of wealth would be legacy.

And what I mean by that is making impact on people that is going to last longer than I ever do.

It doesn't necessarily always have to be about money.

It can be even just that huge impact on people and impacting people that don't even know I exist.

Right.

So when I impact a business owner or a leadership team or even a one on one client, that it's impacting their whole family, it's impacting their businesses family, it's impacting the generations to come in the way that they show up.

I feel like that's wealth to me.

Nobody has ever given me a dollar amount.

Nobody's ever said when I have X amount of dollars, I'll have, I'll be wealthy.

It's always some version of freedom or service to others, which is essentially what you said.

So I appreciate that.

Enjoyed speaking.

I'm in the exit planning field as well, so I think we're both looking at some of the same things with business owners.

So this was really good.

Have a couple things I' going to put into practice in my life.

And yeah, Derek, so appreciate your time.

And until next episode, I wish everybody a blessed week.

Thanks, Derek.

All right, David, see you later.

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And here is this week's bonus content for this episode of the weekly wealth podcast.

And that's about business ownership being lonely.

So don't go it alone.

Make sure you're getting in groups of your business owner colleagues.

Maybe you need to work with a coach.

Maybe you need to join a mastermind group.

Maybe you just need something who's in somebody who's in a similar situation that you can bounce ideas off of.

But business ownership can be tough.

It can be beautiful, it can be everything in between.

But it certainly can be lonely.

So don't do it alone.

All right, everybody, I'll see you next week.